Pete Hegseth shared Yemen attack details in second Signal chat

(theguardian.com)

109 points | by n1b0m 7 hours ago

8 comments

  • hdivider 6 hours ago
    Consider all the small business defense contractors who are held to the letter of the most minute security compliance requirements. They have to somehow meet everything, with very limited resources.

    And then at the top of government, the most sensitive information is frequently handled without any care at all. Not to mention 19-year olds with flash drives barging into the most sensitive IT systems of the federal government.

    Slight imbalance there, I would say.

    • mmooss 6 hours ago
      Notice why Hesgeth's aids were fired:

      > According to the Times, the private chat also included two senior advisers to Hegseth – Dan Caldwell and Darin Selnick – who were fired last week after being accused of leaking unauthorized information.

      I understand the tactics of much of what Trump and his people do, even though I often disagree. I understand why Trump has DOGE moving quickly and breaking things; I understand why they show contempt for the law, rules, and customs - they want to destroy those things.

      I don't understand the utter incompetence that often appears; an earlier example was team Trump's court filings challenging the 2020 elections but there is lots more. How does that furthering the neo-fascist / conservative / Trump mission? I suppose it's disruptive but if they just showed basic competence they would probably get away with much more.

      • bayarearefugee 4 hours ago
        When the only qualification you have for the people that you hire to advise you is absolute sycophantic loyalty, it isn't surprising when they turn out to be wildly incompetent.
        • mmooss 4 hours ago
          Hesgeth has significant success in life and served as a captain in the Army (or Army National Guard). Those aren't sufficient qualification for Secretary of Defense, but they are for not doing stupid, self-sabotaging stuff.

          Simlarly, Rudy Guliani was a lawyer and mayor, but the 2020 election court filings and arguments were idiotic. How is that possible?

          I don't buy that they are idiots. I don't have an explanation, however.

          • defrost 3 hours ago
            Hegseth has years on record as a day drinking handsome face on day time TV who rushes into things without thinking ..

            eg: throwing an axe and hitting a drummer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMrVdFnjEjs

            That's a very narrow type of "significant success" and absolutely below the bar of qualification for Secretary of Defense, although easily clearing the bar to be considered an idiot.

      • panarky 2 hours ago
        Privileging ideology and loyalty over reality and competence causes massively sub-optimal results.

        Imagine you ordered your Waymo to pretend its location, direction and velocity were what you wanted them to be, ignoring its sensors.

        It's a myth that the fascists of the 1930s made the trains run on time.

      • ramchip 6 hours ago
        Fascism rewards loyalty above competence.
      • kashunstva 6 hours ago
        > I don't understand the utter incompetence

        Simply put, it’s a reflection of Trump’s own incompetence, or perhaps carelessness and his utter refusal to recognize and make use of expertise in others. I’m about halfway through “Lucky Loser” (Buettner & Craig) which traces his financial history. His disdain for objective data over “intuition” has always been alarming. I suspect his hiring for cabinet positions follows a similar carelessness.

        • mandeepj 6 hours ago
          > Lucky Loser

          Thanks for that ref! I've always maintained T is extremely dumb, He goes towards far left on the Dumb scale on the levels which you'd have never seen before. But, at the same time, he has all the luck which no one else has. Glad, I'm not the only one to see him that way.

          • selcuka 49 minutes ago
            > he has all the luck which no one else has

            Well, the tagline of the book is "Inheritance. Fraud. Deceit.", so "Lucky" might not be the right word.

      • jemmyw 5 hours ago
        Folks that are more competent and considered are less likely to be involved in the first place. I think we can see that from Trump's first time in office. There were people politically aligned that fell by the wayside. Unfortunately incompetence appears to be the winning strategy.
      • bdangubic 6 hours ago
        This is what happens when 99% of hires are DEI hires… :)
  • lemon_zest 3 hours ago
    It kinda gets buried under the utter incompetence of these clowns but why are we even bombing Yemen? How is it acceptable to brazenly destroying other countries’ civil infrastructure? It’s a US president’s pastime activity since Obama
    • ty6853 3 hours ago
      Obama started doing it as a concession to the Saudis for our policies in the ME. More recently Yemen has pirated ships as an immediate response to our support and funding of mass murder of civilians in Palestine. So the Yemenis are not blameless and there is some sort of valid reasoning for the attacks, but to be clear we are the instigator here.
      • lemon_zest 3 hours ago
        Agreed, mine was more of a rhetorical question. The concession was that we allowed the Saudis to bomb them and further excarcerbate the civil war in Yemen. Now because they are blockading shipments in protest of the current onslaught in Gaza we are pummeling them for it. We sure do have a taste for war crimes in the region.
        • Balgair 1 hour ago
          The other issue is that these bombing will accomplish nothing of value. These rebels have been bombed to the stone age by Saudi already. The cost of the sorties is vastly larger than anything the rebels are sending. Yes, some 'show the colors' is needed to assuage allies and merchants. It ends up being very expensive 'grass cutting'.

          But real change there is going to require boots on the ground. And none of the players in the region want that. So, we just spend a $80,000 on a missile for a guy to shoot that doesn't make that in a year at a guy that doesn't make that in a lifetime.

    • morkalork 3 hours ago
      Not since Bush and Iraq's non-existent WMDs? Or Vietnam or countless other conflicts got involved in under the Monroe doctrine?
  • morkalork 6 hours ago
    I remember in the one UX design class I took how they stressed the apocryphal "your grandmother is using this app" which in hindsight is sadly asking too much, apparently the bar should have been lower at "the secretary of defense is trying to start a group chat and not leak national security secrets".
    • mcphage 4 hours ago
      He’s not really trying not to leak secrets, though.
      • defrost 4 hours ago
        Not trying at all ...

          US defense secretary texted strike information to his family in group chat he created
        
        from sources common to both The Guardian article and the parallel New York Times article.
  • NoWordsKotoba 6 hours ago
    At this point, who outside the most delusional among us is not questioning the unfittedness of the entire Trump administration?
    • matwood 6 hours ago
      Those watching and reading Fox News who will likely completely the ignore the story.
      • mmooss 6 hours ago
        Or they will spin it. The Democrats and othe Trump opponents have no power to communicate effectively outside their bubble, and Trump's team, the Republicans and the right wing know it. They can do anything and spin it successfully. It is the heart of their power.
    • threatofrain 4 hours ago
      Arguably 45% of the US by job approval.
    • morkalork 6 hours ago
      [flagged]
  • alistairSH 6 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • ty6853 6 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • jameskilton 6 hours ago
      I would request that you think about such situations a bit more before posting a public comment like this. Military security is first and foremost about protecting our armed forces. When the Pentagon plans an attack, it is vitally important that only our military knows about the plan and no-one else, especially the enemy.

      It's only a matter of time that our maximally incompetent Secretary of Defense does something that leads to the death of our own armed forces personnel. E.g. the Houthi learning about an incoming attack and shooting down the pilots, or harassing and killing our Navy sailors patrolling the area.

      I highly recommend reading Secretary Gate's memoir about being the Secretary of Defense for Bush Jr. and Obama. There is so much at stake that very few people ever talk about. https://bookshop.org/p/books/duty-memoirs-of-a-secretary-at-...

      • JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago
        Would add that out of the handful of fighter pilots I know, 100% of them are seriously considering retiring from the armed forces into private industry, something 0% of them (to the chagrin of their spouses) would have countenanced even a few weeks ago.
      • ty6853 6 hours ago
        [flagged]
    • mmooss 6 hours ago
      Experts say it risks the lives of the pilots. Also, if Hesgeth and other officials are doing it with this particular information, we might be concerned they are doing it with other information.
      • ty6853 5 hours ago
        The number innocent US citizens in Yemen dead due to US strikes exceeds US pilots killed. So the US dead lives calculus is complicated by the fact this is also Americans (government) killing Americans.
        • opello 4 hours ago
          ... not that it's a zero sum situation as you've laid it out.

          It's reasonable to be critical of both details, but not to hold them in any sort of balance.

          • ty6853 4 hours ago
            I don't know it's zero sum, but if the drone strike on a Yemen domiciled US citizen would have been anticipated I think that citizen would not have waited around to be blown up, to the extent a child has such agency.
      • bigyabai 6 hours ago
        One of the most famous recorded surface-to-air missile kills on a stealth aircraft was enabled by spies reporting formations and timing:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani

          Yugoslav spies residing near Italian NATO airbases informed the Yugoslav Air Defense HQ about lack of EA-6 Prowler electronic jammer and "Wild Weasel" anti-SAM aircraft launches during the late evening.
        • mmooss 4 hours ago
          Interesting! Unfortunately, Wikipedia offers no citations for that story. (Also, I don't think it says anything about timing, only formation in the sense of what aircraft and capabilities were flying.)
    • dijksterhuis 6 hours ago
      > I'd point out it is a victimless crime

      is it though?

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/05/why-tr...

      > as a first-term Trump administration official and ex-CIA officer, I believe the reason these officials risk interacting in this way is to prevent their communications from being preserved as required by the Presidential Records Act, and avoid them being discoverable in litigation, or subject to a subpoena or Freedom of Information Act request.

      not american, but wouldn't the victims in this case be 'every american'? i suppose it depends on whether you think PRA/FoIA et al. are important in holding governments to account or not.