Zero Lines Maze: What the 8-Bit Guy's One-Liner Can Still Teach Us

(retrogamecoders.com)

72 points | by ibobev 2 days ago

12 comments

  • madanparas 19 hours ago
    There's a 300-page MIT Press book analyzing exactly this line of code: 10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); :GOTO 10. It's free as a PDF and covers the mathematics (Truchet tilings), the C64 hardware, and the cultural history. The article doesn't mention it.
  • teddyh 12 hours ago

       python3 -c 'import random, time, itertools; any(time.sleep(0.01) or print(random.choice("\u2571\u2572"), end="", flush=True) for x in itertools.repeat(None))'
    • flykespice 5 hours ago
      This isn't much impressive because can always import some package to do everything to you.
      • teddyh 4 hours ago
        Note that only Python standard modules are imported, no third-party libraries.

        The “random” module is needed, because Python does not have a built-in replacement for BASIC’s RND(). The “time” module is merely to add delays, to emulate the style of normal BASIC interpreters on old – i.e. very slow – computers. You could remove it without any change in output. And lastly, the “itertools” module is used to get an infinite loop on a Python one-liner; Python, with its whitespace-based block structure, has a hard time doing anything significant in a single line otherwise.

        • stratos123 4 hours ago
          You could use `iter(lambda:1,0)` to get an infinite iterator, then itertools can be dropped.
          • teddyh 3 hours ago
            Nice!

              python3 -c 'import random, time; any(time.sleep(0.01) or print(random.choice("\u2571\u2572"), end="", flush=True) for x in iter(lambda: 0, 1))'
  • newmana 18 hours ago
    It takes 40 seconds to precompute the lookup table.

    Robin released at least 2 faster/improved versions that run in a couple of seconds - less string concatenation which is slow in BASIC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw2hvtF95Qw

  • busfahrer 10 hours ago
    Not a one-liner, but I was impressed by this simple rogue-like written in 10 lines of BASIC:

    https://bunsen.itch.io/the-snake-temple-by-rax

  • pimlottc 10 hours ago
    It's a classic, but removing the line number does not make it zero lines... :P
    • tacomagick 6 hours ago
      You could also argue the head compute does not make it faster tbh
  • juancn 7 hours ago
    8-bit Show and tell has a response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw2hvtF95Qw

    with an even faster implementation in BASIC (much lowers startup time).

  • teaearlgraycold 18 hours ago
    The author of the article says the 8-Bit Guy is controversial. Why is that?
    • pwdisswordfishq 17 hours ago
      Gun nut on the side, he had a rather ill-informed (at best) video on AI a while ago (before the current LLM craze), and has once done a pretty reckless attempt at repairing a unique IBM machine – as in, opening the PSU with a dremel tool and then then bridging a circuit with a paperclip.
      • TehCorwiz 9 hours ago
        Yeah, that paperclip episode was where I stopped watching.
        • vitaflo 7 hours ago
          Same. Realized this guy is a total hack.
        • flykespice 6 hours ago
          For reference, here is the video with the timestamp when he shorts the power supply with the paperclip: https://youtu.be/Wh2OCBZpzZ8?t=273

          Instead of deleting the video and owning up to his mistake, he just deactivated the comments...

          • teaearlgraycold 1 hour ago
            I think it’s an embarrassing mistake that I probably would have entirely edited out if I were him. But I don’t watch his hardware restoration videos because he’s a source of electrical knowledge. They’re pure entertainment.
    • smilespray 18 hours ago
      Maybe it's because he's a bit of a gun nut on the side? He did some computer videos casually carrying a rifle of some kind slung over his shoulder.

      I still enjoy his videos.

      • karlgkk 16 hours ago
        A lot of vintage restorers don't like him and people like him because he goes Wow! Look at This! and then suddenly a bunch of middle aged men with beards have that exact thing on their shelf. And those of us doing preservation and restoration suddenly are priced out of the hobby we've been in for decades.

        Also, his technical "work" is not great. In fact, it's really bad. Even his successful fixes show a lack of attention to detail.

        It's worth noting that he started his career as a computer scrapper.

        • vintermann 13 hours ago
          The attention thing he can't be blamed for, and it's in any case a mixed blessing (more popularity of a specific retro computer can also have upsides for the existing enthusiasts).

          He's definitively not the best hardware restorer. But his historical videos, his games and his X16 project are pretty nice.

        • smilespray 16 hours ago
          Yeah, I've seen some fixes that gave me the wrong kind of goosebumps.

          I like his history videos, though, for instance the ones that talk about graphics modes for a given computer.

          Also, your bio says you don't shave. Sure you're not one of those bearded, middle-aged men?

          • karlgkk 14 hours ago
            I also live in my mom's basement and write currency libraries.
            • benj111 13 hours ago
              >currency libraries

              Are there some hidden depths to formatting/converting that I'm missing? And yes. I know not to use floats

        • flykespice 6 hours ago
          Most of his restoration work on videos limited to just being cosmetic at best with his expertise just being retrobriting.

          When there was an issue on the motherboard, he almost always outsourced to his more tech-savy friends to fix it for him.

      • noumenon1111 7 hours ago
        I find it funny that being Texan == gun nut. But I'm from Oregon, lots of OreGUNians around here.
      • kgwxd 8 hours ago
        Gun nut is fine. One can be a gun nut without supporting the awful ideas/people within that domain. It's the support of awful ideas/people in that domain them that make him "controversial" (a.k.a. anti-social asshole, that insist being an anti-social asshole is simply a personality trait, immune to criticism)
        • postalrat 1 hour ago
          Nah these days you pick a team and cancel the other.
      • sedimannapoleon 17 hours ago
        [dead]
  • jason_s 1 day ago
    Oh that -- I used to print those out from my C64 to my Star Micronics dot-matrix printer and add selected white-out / ink to make them more interesting.
  • rob74 12 hours ago
    > The 8-Bit Guy’s first nerd flex is making it shorter than one line.

    Hate to be that guy, but a line you enter at the prompt is still a line, even if it's not part of an "actual" (stored) program.

  • aa-jv 1 day ago
    It seems that the BASIC's of yesteryear still have a lot to teach us.

    My favourite example is the annual BASIC 10 liner competition:

    https://basic10liner.com/

    Basically, folks compete to write the best, most interesting, most inspiring 10 lines of BASIC code imaginable .. and ooh boy, has there ever been some truly amazing stuff! A dynamically generated dungeon crawler, a full implementation of lunar lander, countless arcade-style games, an implementation of Brainfuck .. the list goes on and on .. all in just 10 LINES OF BASIC!

    Another source of BASIC inspiration, I find, is in the synthesis one-liner scene - which of course, is dominated by the C64 for its synth goodness, but there are other examples out there where, in just a single line of code, entire techno and other electronic-music tracks are generated, on the fly, by ye' olde 8-bit computer of choice (C64, mostly, though..) The bytebeat techniques in use by some synth-one-liner hackers seem to be continually producing extraordinary results.

    For example:

    https://replicate.com/andreasjansson/synth-one-liner/readme

    .. and a good treatise on the various techniques:

    https://countercomplex.blogspot.com/2011/10/algorithmic-symp...

    I think there is a lot of value in learning BASIC using these kinds of techniques in this day and age. I know for sure I'd struggle to have a full Lunar Lander or Asteroids implementation of just 10 lines of javascript, if that is even feasible .. but seeing so many BASIC implementations is just truly inspiring.

    What we have lost in the rush for shiny bloat, eh folks?

    The old adage that limits produce wonders, is never truer than in the 10 Line BASIC competition entries ...

  • ErroneousBosh 14 hours ago
    The lookup table is interesting. I wonder why pretty much no 1980s home computer BASICs included bitwise operations?
  • fortyseven 2 days ago
    Nothing like ignoring the spirit of the thing by turning it from one line to nearly a dozen.
    • smilespray 18 hours ago
      Think about it the other way: It's an opportunity to talk about lookup tables, loop unrolling and tricks like that.

      Also, now different people are pitching in with their own takes, so it turned into a bit of friendly competition.