Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

(openai.com)

55 points | by iamsyr 3 hours ago

6 comments

  • hedgehog 1 hour ago
    This roughly lines up with my personal experience that in March a combination of stronger models and better tooling on my end let me start running jobs unattended 24/7 (using Anthropic sub and my own hardware). Their $8000/day per researcher spend is crazy though, I'm curious how they keep track of the work.
  • Jeff_Brown 2 hours ago
    The burning question I can't get any information nn is whether, if they determined an earlier misaligned generation may have transmitted misalignment to the current models, they would roll back to a safe checkpoint to rebuild from there. I suspect they would not unless forced to.
    • piyh 1 hour ago
      Opus was trained based on it's internal CoT due to a bug for generations. Gemini's depression extended through models. OpenAI has killed people. We've already seen cross gen misalingment.
    • coherentpony 1 hour ago
      “All models are wrong. Some are useful.” - George Box
      • jephs 29 minutes ago
        The poor fellow just rolled over. what an incandescently vulgar abuse of notation.
    • grim_io 1 hour ago
      They would maybe try to deactivate that bad "gene" and move on, exposing future models to "genetic disorders".
  • simonw 2 hours ago
    My eye glazed over a bit during the opening paragraphs, but once you get to the meat of the article about how OpenAI's own researchers are using their tools it gets a lot more interesting.

    I noted that they use the acronym RSI (for Recursive Self-Improvement) without defining it. I think that's a little out of touch - I don't think RSI is a well-known acronym outside of OpenAI's bubble yet.

    • sho_hn 44 minutes ago
      I actually think a goal of the current crop of OpenAI posts is expressely to reset the spectrum by normalizing the concept of RSI as something normal and safe to pursue.

      The message is running through all of them. It's a mix of marketing and pacifying the intelligentia.

      It's timed this way because the term is not yet well known outside the safety debate circles, so they get to frame it now.

      Instead of something to fear, it will be accepted as the next step. In approximately two days the groupie crowd will write LinkedIn posts about how Sam is winning because they have the better RSI, and this will become the new standard wisdom.

      In a month an AI expert will try to sell you a webinar on how to enable "RSI" in your org and your inbox will ask you if your team is doing the "RSI" yet.

    • dgacmu 1 hour ago
      Indeed, many programmers might pattern match to repetitive stress injury and think of their brushes with carpal tunnel syndrome. :)
    • HarHarVeryFunny 1 hour ago
      RSI is a fetishistic term among the singularity crowd, who imagine AI "recursively" improving itself in some exponential fashion until there is a bright flash of white light and it reveals itself in the form of god. Or something like that.

      I don't know why whoever coined the term chose "recursive" rather than "iterative" - just sounds more likely to lead to infinite regress I suppose.

      This notion of recursive/iterative self-improvement, whereby generation #1 AI improves itself to create generation #2, then generation #2 further improves itself to create generation #3, etc, seems to conflict with the reality that what we have with LLMs is models whose performance/capability is defined by data, not code, so the most you can do is have your LLM design synthetic data, or just do Karpathy-style "auto research" where all you are doing is using the LLM to automate your experiments.

      At the end of the day, each experiment, designed by a person and/or LLM, then needs to compete with all your other ideas for compute to be tested at scale, and no amount of recursion or self-improvement will materialize an infinite amount of compute out of thin air, so your recursively synthetic-data gobbling LLM will continue to improve at the same pace it ever did.

      • red75prime 26 minutes ago
        What will prevent LLMs from designing robot control circuitry and participating in increase of chip production/design and physical experimentation?

        How do you think why there's this fad of producing general purpose humanoid robots?

        • HarHarVeryFunny 0 minutes ago
          > How do you think why there's this fad of producing general purpose humanoid robots?

          For doing physical work?

          So a swarm of robots builds the shell of your fab overnight, and then what? Where is the EUV machine coming from?

          So far the most we're seen TeslaBot do is serve drinks via tele-operation, and I don't think it's exactly built for construction site work.

        • HarHarVeryFunny 15 minutes ago
          Money, regulations, EUV machine lead-times, global helium supply, reality ...

          It's funny that we've got the Dwarkesh contingent saying that GPUs will become infinitely expensive, and now another contingent saying that they will become infinitely abundant.

          Even if compute were free, and/or the AI was so smart that it picked the right experiments to run every time ("make no mistakes"), you still have to actually train the model, which takes months, and if model Ver. N+1 depends on model Ver. N, then it's iterative regardless of how much compute you have.

          • red75prime 2 minutes ago
            Who's saying that compute will become infinitely abundant? "Singularity" is just a way of saying that known models begin to give absurd predictions. Anyway, intelligence is a way of overcoming obstacles. 10 million tonnes of helium is a nice head start and retraining models from scratch is not guaranteed to last forever.
      • jazzyjackson 1 hour ago
        Yes the exponential self improvement folks have never heard of an eigenvalue I guess. You can loop forever using output as input but at some point the result will stop changing (depending on the function)
        • fuzzfactor 12 minutes ago
          >AI "recursively" improving itself in some exponential fashion until there is a bright flash of white light

          Sounds like repetitive stress to me.

          >loop forever using output as input but at some point the result will stop changing

          Running in place will eventually wear you out too. Plus with some things it can be difficult to know for sure if that's where you are at the time.

          Even worse may be if you were almost running in place, it could be orders of magnitude more difficult to discern, especially if the scale was massive to an unprecedented degree.

    • andrewingram 1 hour ago
      Yeah, I kept looking for the first place it was defined in the article and... nothing
      • iamflimflam1 37 minutes ago
        They must have picked that habit up from Claude...
    • vatsachak 1 hour ago
      RSI started when humans discovered tool use.

      I mean one could argue that RSI always begins in any physical environment.

      The book "What is intelligence?" by Blaise Aguera is great

      • lokar 1 hour ago
        Are you sure that was not iterative improvement?
        • topaz0 6 minutes ago
          Iteration and recursion are famously equivalent
        • password54321 1 hour ago
          Using tools to build tools is recursive.
          • HarHarVeryFunny 1 hour ago
            It's not recursive when it's done iteratively, or are you imagining GPT Astra designing GPT Galactia, which starts designing GPT Oh-My-God-ica before it has finished being created itself?
            • itishappy 18 minutes ago
              That sounds more iterative than recursive.

              Recursion requires feeding the output back into the input, so creating version 4 requires results from version 3. You cannot recur in parallel.

              Iteration does not. You can iterate in parallel.

              • HarHarVeryFunny 10 minutes ago
                You can search in parallel, but a depth N search can only become a depth N+1 search after the depth N is done (i.e. sequentially).

                In any case the name RSI has stuck - the idea doesn't change or make any more sense by giving it a different name.

                • itishappy 7 minutes ago
                  Because "depth" is recursive.

                  You can search twice without waiting for the results of your first search: iteration.

                  You can't if the thing you need to search for is the results of your first search: recursion.

            • 0x63_Problems 36 minutes ago
              I think it's only recursive from the perspective of the humans, i.e. they design Astra, which itself as part of its deployment designs Galactica, etc.

              So humans develop things one after the other, but when the thing itself starts developing new things, those are happening 'recursively' in its scope.

        • adastra22 1 hour ago
          What is the difference between?
  • frays 5 minutes ago
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  • Orien_18 56 minutes ago
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  • matan0904 1 hour ago
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